In this talk I will introduce the QIF approach to studying secure systems, focussing on the notion of refinement which provides a robust method of comparing systems wrt Bayesian threats. I will introduce a variety of new refinement orders inspired by QIF and DP which allow us to study threats to privacy using max-case notions. We will see how to apply these orders to the task of comparing DP mechanisms, raising the question of whether the order based on epsilon provides strong privacy guarantees.